Apex Mountain on The Rewatchables
9:02 – 12:34… being a young person and was already like, like character Max says. Just look at how those guys dress. I was, I mean, are you going to make me burn my apex mountain for sports jacket? I'm holding that one back. But it's, it's, it's not romantic about itself. And I think in a way that a lot of art made by young people is, you know, in the sense that you read it and you're not, or if it's a book, you read it. If it's a movie, you watch it and you're filled with a wistfulness that maybe you felt at that time when you thought anything was possible and you could do things just like buy a ticket to Eastern …
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It honestly like floored me. And it's been flooring me ever since for 25 years. It's kind of an amazing thing that this movie was made by a young person, clearly a young person who was uncomfortable being a young person and was already like, like character Max says. Just look at how those guys dress. I was, I mean, are you going to make me burn my apex mountain for sports jacket? I'm holding that one back. But it's, it's, it's not romantic about itself. And I think in a way that a lot of art made by young people is, you know, in the sense that you read it and you're not, or if it's a book, you read it. If it's a movie, you watch it and you're filled with a wistfulness that maybe you felt at that time when you thought anything was possible and you could do things just like buy a ticket to Eastern Europe on a whim. Already he knew that life didn't work that way. And there was a sadness to it. And that's obviously something that's become more explicit in his later movies, like Chris's action film of last summer, Marriage Story. But it's really astonishing. And that's one of the main reasons, the thing you're alluding to, Bill, the way it leaves you feeling at the end. That's what separated at the time. And that's what keeps it up on apex mountain for all of us. Yeah. When you watch other movies about young people, whether it's like Diner or Days of Confused or Everybody Wants Some or Animal House, like I was trying to think of like other great college movies. There's a degree of romanticism involved there. These guys are fucking miserable. This entire movie, it starts, they're miserable. By the end, most of them dislike one another and are leaving. And it's just like empty. But there's something about the honesty and the fact that they don't put too glossy a coat of paint on everything that makes you feel like, yeah, that's actually the way life really is. You really do a lot of stuff that you think is your personality really is just an affectation that becomes a habit. I mean, trust me, as somebody who started smoking at 20 and just did it for 15 years, it's not a bit. You just wind up becoming the person that you think you're kind of trying out these different personality quirks. We're like, oh, maybe I'll be a writer. Maybe I'll wear this kind of jacket. Or maybe I'll grow my hair like this. Or maybe I'll smoke. Or maybe I'll drink scotch. And then all of a sudden, that's who you are. Yeah. And they seem very wary of the longer this goes, the longer this is just going to be my life. And the person who's in their life who's reminding them of this constantly is Chet, Eric Stiles' character, where he just stays in college for 10 years and ultimately just decides like, yeah, this is pretty great. I'm just going to do this. And none of them want to end up like Chet. Yeah, but he's actually happy. But it all comes to a head when they're in the bar, when Skippy confronts Max about sleeping with Parker Posey. And he's like, I hate you. And it just cuts to Grover. And he's just kind of, it's like all of his, all these relationships he's had for five years are just in flames. And he's like, what's going on in my life? But I'll tell you, I don't, I think of the internet era and in social media era, you have more ways to kind of identify with people. You know, especially if you're lonely or you're battling whatever thing, there's essays about it. You don't feel like you're alone. I think the difference in 95 and leading up to the internet era was you really didn't have a lot of people to talk about this stuff with. You basically had your group of friends. You didn't really know if it was just you. And you had the occasional movie like this where you're like, oh, holy shit, it's not just me. Oh, these guys are going through it too. And I can't tell you how important stuff like that or certain books or certain magazine pieces
39:17 – 42:04… thinking, like, oh, from this, I'll go to this next thing. And he's still a great actor. He's great on stage in New York all the time. But, like, we'll get to Apex Mountain. But that performance in that scene is really something. And it reminded me, too, so much of the end of The Graduate, right? Like, there's a kind of a similar energy from Dustin Hoffman banging on the church to when he's banging on this woman at the airport, basically being like, I need this. I need this. Which made me realize that the tone of the end of The Graduate after that, when they're on the bus, like, one of my favorite endings of …
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And I was watching it and wondering, like, how many takes do you think he got? Because they didn't have much money. And they were filming on location. It's on film. It's on film. And he's just wonderful in it. You know? And he's a young actor. And he's probably thinking, like, oh, from this, I'll go to this next thing. And he's still a great actor. He's great on stage in New York all the time. But, like, we'll get to Apex Mountain. But that performance in that scene is really something. And it reminded me, too, so much of the end of The Graduate, right? Like, there's a kind of a similar energy from Dustin Hoffman banging on the church to when he's banging on this woman at the airport, basically being like, I need this. I need this. Which made me realize that the tone of the end of The Graduate after that, when they're on the bus, like, one of my favorite endings of all time. Also the ending of Michael Clayton, basically, where they're like, we did it, we did it. And the camera stays on them. And then it's like, wait, what did we do? That's the vibe of this entire movie. Like, the movie was inspired, I think, almost entirely from granular DNA elements of that what did we do? And if it was Mendez an homage, it works. If it wasn't, you can just kind of pick up on it. It's an unbelievable performance by him. And it's funny, because if you had asked me at the end of 95, what five young actors would you bet on? I would have had Chris O'Donnell in there, because he was so good in Scent of a Woman. You know, that would have probably been a little off. I weirdly would have had Damon, because I thought he was amazing in School Ties. Would you still be hanging on to some Furlong stock? I would not have Furlong. I would have had Omar Epps in there, though. Yeah. Because Omar Epps was on a really great run at that point. And I don't know, probably a couple others that aren't jumping to mind. But I think Hamilton would have been on there for me. And you'd think, like, this easily could have been a Matt Damon part. I think he could have done some interesting stuff with it. But Hamilton's perfect in this. And I've always liked him ever since. As you said, he's gone more in the stage direction. But I do feel like he was as good as those other guys, at least in a certain kind of part. He's a guy who's also really, really suffered on Google from Josh Hamilton's career as a Texas Oh, I know. I had that and would say it's the worst. Yeah, you're right. He's part of that sort of core New York City theater school 90s crew that also birthed Billy Crudup. And Ethan Hawke is very tight with those guys. Robert Sean Leonard. Yeah. Yeah. And I think they are all still tight. They've all had varying levels of success in their career. And Philip Seymour Hoffman kind of came out of that too, right? That's right. And even like when Crudup was doing the rounds for, he eventually won the Emmy for the morning show, but he was still talking about Josh Hamilton as a good friend and they root for each other. And they're just kind of, I think they made it work. Yeah. They didn't make it work on the level that some people expected in 95. Well, that airport scene's great. And it's funny because Jessica Hecht is the stewardess who was Ross's ex-wife's lesbian lover and friends and was just kind of weirdly having a moment, which I don't think they realized when they filmed it, but she's great in that scene too. You can always go tomorrow.
73:32 – 83:14… I should put that in what stage is the best. I enjoyed the cow fucker. It's so relentless. And it just keeps going behind them in the scene. Who's asking? Apex Mountain. Jason Wiles, maybe the all-time Apex Mountain that we've ever covered in this category. When you're ripping off Kicking Screamin' and 90210 at the same time, you're on the top of the mountain. It's never going to get better. Josh Hamilton, he's had a really good respected career. He's been in a lot of good stuff. But I have to imagine this was the most important movie he's been in. It is for us because this movie has so much importance to …
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Which I don't think he ever did again as the guy asking people if they'd rather fuck a cow or kill their mother. Yeah. I should put that in what stage is the best. I enjoyed the cow fucker. It's so relentless. And it just keeps going behind them in the scene. Who's asking? Apex Mountain. Jason Wiles, maybe the all-time Apex Mountain that we've ever covered in this category. When you're ripping off Kicking Screamin' and 90210 at the same time, you're on the top of the mountain. It's never going to get better. Josh Hamilton, he's had a really good respected career. He's been in a lot of good stuff. But I have to imagine this was the most important movie he's been in. It is for us because this movie has so much importance to us. I remember the same thing you're saying where you see this movie and you're like, Josh Hamilton, just bet on that guy. But this movie, like you said, it did not do well. It was like beloved by dozens or hundreds of people. But it just like, so to call it his Apex Mountain, I would almost think like some supporting role he played a few years into the future. Like I'm not looking at it as I am doing it. Alive? Maybe even people in Alive? Alive would be his Apex Mountain. What about Carlos Chacat, who plays Otis, who is Bombach's really good friend and still shows up in all of his movies. He was the town car driver in Meyerowitz stories. He's a producer in Marriage Story. He's so funny in this because it was written for him. He's such a unique performance. I mean, we didn't even mention in that scene you guys love so much in the opening. I love it too. When he's like, I'm a little person. And Chris Algerman is like, look at you. You're a monster. Yeah. You're gigantic. What do you mean? I think the thing I laughed at the most last night, like hysterically, was the food in his beer. Food in here? In the beer. There's food in the beer. Let me turn it. No. I mean, I don't want to upset her. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I don't want to bother her. She seems really irritable, a little distant. It's like, I don't know. It's just been a hard day for her. This might just set her over the edge. I want her to like me. I like this better anyway. And Josh Hamilton being like, don't complain to me about it if you're not going to say something. And him drinking the Cheeto or the chicken wing or whatever is in his beer and the face he makes. Oh, man. He's like, I don't want to upset her. She seems like she's had a bad day and I want her to like me. That has happened. Either we have been that person or we have been at a table with that person in our lives. 100%. I'm going Apex Mount for him, although I root for him every time I see him in a movie. He's been in some stuff. I remember he was in Seinfeld. He was like a TV executive. He's done a whole bunch of things. Noah Baumbach, no. Chris Eichmann, probably not. Some people would say Barcelona because it was more successful. I think Barcelona might be his best performance and his showiest performance. But he's playing the refined version of the dick that he played in a lot of those Wood Stillman movies. And in this one, he's a little bit sadder and he's a little bit softer. And you kind of see the heart a little more. I think it's a sweeter performance. Livia Diabo. No, because she was the sister in the Wonder Years, which was a really important, massive show for an entire generation. Yep. And then Freedy Johnston, I'm going to say yes. This is a Freedy Johnson Apex Mountain? Didn't he play Saturday Night Live? His song comes on at a great ending of a movie that's been on for 25 years. It's the Sassi. But didn't Can You Fly, like, didn't that win the Paz and Jop poll? And didn't, like, Chris Gow say that this was the most important singer-songwriter since Dylan? Like, there was this moment when Chris and I were scouring the Village Voice when we could get our hands on it when we were still in high school. And you'd think you would know something and be like, oh, it's REM or it's REM derivative or they're from Athens. And then there was just some guy named Freedy and we all had to get in line. I literally went to Herald Square because of this guy, just to check it out. Well, what year was that? 93? All right. That's fine. When that came out? No, Can You Fly was earlier, but yeah. Jessica Heck, great career, but being on Friends when this movie came out, it's pretty good. Bill, is this Apex Mountain for college movies? For non-over-the-top college movies? So I've got, it depends on what you consider a college movie. So there's Social Network is ostensibly a college movie. No, it's not. Right. Animal House? Animal House is a college movie. Old School? College. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Those are like the comedy college movies. I don't think they totally count. Well, everybody wants some I like quite a bit. Me too. This. What are some other ones? There's one I just saw that I really like called Shithouse. Oh, yeah. But I don't know. Apex Mountain would be a little... Yeah, yeah. I'm just trying to think of other college movies. They're really... School Days. School Days, the Spike Lee movie is pretty great. Higher Learning. Yeah. College movie. Weirdly, there's been as many boarding school movies as college movies. Yeah, that's the thing. I have an explanation for that. Cinema's Fire, a college movie? Kind of is, right? Post-college. What about The Program? College movie. Blue Chips. Blue Chips. One on one. I was going to say. Blue Chips. Yeah, I don't know. It's definitely in the conversation. Yeah. Tweed Jackets, Andy? That's the thing I got to say. I mean, I really believe in my heart there was a time when relatively young people dressed like this. But maybe it's fully formed just from my experience watching this movie and as the son of someone who wore jackets with patches on them throughout my childhood. I just thought that that was what one did, right? Like that you went out into the world doing that. And if you look at, I don't know, again, if it's accurate, but if you watch Bright Lights, Big City, different movie, different time, different location. But everyone's wearing sport coats. So even like at the cool clubs, right? Or if you watch Last Days of Disco, people are wearing sport coats to Studio 54. So I feel like they were a thing. But this specific kind of I would like to be a professor, but I've barely got my BA degree. This is the apex mountain of that. Here's a good one. Eric Stoltz. Here's the case. It's a year after Pulp Fiction. He's become an indie darling at this point. And we have real evidence that the only way they were able to make this movie is if he was involved. It's definitely apex mountain of his clout. And I love the performance. Yes. But is it his best performance? What else is in the running? Mask? Not the one we were talking about before, Chris? I really like Eric Stoltz. This is the best use of him of any movie I think he's been in. I think he hits a fucking home run in every scene. He is in... Perfect use of him. He was very good as the soulful English teacher on the little appreciated ABC drama Once and Again. My favorite... From the young Evan Rachel Wood. He was really good in that. Do you guys remember that Stoltz movie from 92 called Water Dance? It's him and Wesley Snipes. Oh, yeah. Helen Hunt. He's fucking incredible in that movie. Yeah. He's getting that sweet. Sleep With Me is another good one. Yeah. He's had some good ones. Pulp Fiction, I think, was probably the biggest movie he's been in. Not counting Back to the Future. All right. Here's my best apex mountain for you. Prague. I'm trying to think of a Bourne movie. Our Czech listeners may have some issues with that. But... The kind... How about Prague as a movie... As a destination in a movie? That we never actually see. It was a motif actually ripped off or at least inspired. Do you remember there was a book called Prague by Arthur Phillips a few years later that was a big bestseller? And it was a book about people in Budapest feeling sorry for themselves because they weren't cool enough to be in Prague. So once again... So he inspired something here. Prague. The shadow of Prague. Picking Nets. Mentioned the preseason thing. I never understood on the hundred times I've watched this movie why Grover's roommates didn't erase her answer machine message. Because usually you listen to an answer machine and then you just rewind it and it would tape over it. I'm getting the feeling like Grover is the only guy who's getting messages anyway. I can answer this nit. He took the tape. Because later when he's sitting working, he's listening to that tape on the boom box. That's right. Great. Like who's calling Max though? How did Grover and Max pay for stuff? I'm telling you, I think Max is underwriting. It's like a 75-25, 65-35 split. The one bump I had, I want to ask you guys about this because maybe I just missed something. But there's the scene early on where Max is like, it's 1.30, it's cocktail hour, let's go to the Penguin. And they're like, Chet, tell Grover when he gets off the phone or whatever, we're going to the bar. It cuts to the Penguin and Chet is serving them beer. So is this a time, is it a different day? No. Or did Chet go out the back door and race to the bar? Or is this a later round? Grover gets off the phone when they go tell him, oh, we're going to go to the Penguins and just come with us. And he'll probably be like, I'm getting off the phone now. Or did they have their first round and then Chet took over when his shift started? I thought it was a takeover. He had like the four o'clock and on shift. Do you remember being able to drink that much beer? Wait, Bill, I have one more nitpick. They just drink beer all day. They drink pitchers of beer and whiskey and they're fine. Do you remember that? Not only did we do that back then, but we drank beer from places where we knew the taps were dirty and you would have huge headaches the next day. No, I know. It was like half the price of doing bottles. I know we had choices. No worse feeling than when you would get a pint and then you would kind of like about to take that first sip and you just smelled something kind of weird. Yeah, it was like a metallic skunk smell. But it was like, it was just kind of like you were like, this is what I got.
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