Apex Mountain on The Rewatchables
93:54 – 107:57… Can we zoom him in? You're telling me your brother's on a boat and he cannot hold on. Do you want to do Judd Hirsch right now or do you want to wait for Apex Mountain? Yeah, let's do it. I fucking love Judd Hirsch. He's amazing. I can't believe we're at the one hour, 30 minute mark of this podcast. I fucking love Judd Hirsch. I love Taxi. I love him in anything he is. I loved when he popped up on Independence Day. My favorite Judd Hirsch movie is not this movie. It is Without a Trace, which I still think is one of the great kidnapping movies of all time. And he is the detective looking for the little boy. …
The whole segment, as transcribed
He's just great. What about Pacino as Dr. Burger? Where's Chris? Can we zoom him in? You're telling me your brother's on a boat and he cannot hold on. Do you want to do Judd Hirsch right now or do you want to wait for Apex Mountain? Yeah, let's do it. I fucking love Judd Hirsch. He's amazing. I can't believe we're at the one hour, 30 minute mark of this podcast. I fucking love Judd Hirsch. I love Taxi. I love him in anything he is. I loved when he popped up on Independence Day. My favorite Judd Hirsch movie is not this movie. It is Without a Trace, which I still think is one of the great kidnapping movies of all time. And he is the detective looking for the little boy. And he's awesome. He plays Al. And he's just awesome in that movie. And he's basically like the psychiatrist in this movie. It's the same kind of vibe. But yeah, he was, you know, it's hard to explain, but Judd Hirsch was kind of a thing in the early 80s. He had like a real moment. He was the star of Taxi. It made no sense. But I liked it. He basically like vanished from movies for a while. He made Running on Empty. This is a new Lumet movie. Great movie. And then he didn't appear in a movie until Independence Day. So from 1988 to 1996, Judd Hirsch was not in a movie. Well, he was in Dear John. That's right. The TV show. But that was only a few seasons, right? How long was that show on? He had another show, Detective in the House, which I barely remember, but he was the lead of that. The one that kind of turned him as a movie actor the other way was Teachers in 1984, which was an Arthur Hiller movie. Your guy. I like Arthur Hiller. Nick Nolte, Joe Beth Williams, Judd Hirsch, and Ralph Macchio were our four leads. Oh, my God. And for whatever reason, that movie was bad. And then Hollywood cooled off on our guy, Judd. Okay. Half-assenerate research. You mentioned, so Barry Diller is the head of Paramount. The people right under him, Michael Eisner, Jeffrey Katzenberg, and they did not like ordinary people. But Barry Diller liked it, so they made it, which is always weird. And then Katzenberg and Eisner probably at some point were like, oh, yeah, ordinary people. We loved it. But there's a lot of documented evidence. This was like when we were discussing whether or not to do the watch at the beginning of the ringer. And me and Mal were like, this is a terrible idea. We don't want Chris and Andy back. And Bill was like, no, no, no. I love it. I see something in those guys. And seven years later, they're still cranking it out. So they did film the big Donald Sutherland scene at the end again. Now we get to Redford, an unreliable narrator, Robert Redford. I'll give you the two versions. Redford, he says he got so wired up for it when the moment came, he really let loose. I felt maybe it was too much. When the film was finished, I felt like it was too much. Here's where Donald is great. I said, Donald, I want you to look at this. We looked at the scene together and he said, you're absolutely right. Can I do it again? So we went back to the location and shot that moment and recut it into the film. Not only that, Robert, he said, but you are one of the finest men I've ever known. Robert, goddamn, you're handsome. I'm happy to recut this. Donald Sutherland, they read him this Redford quote. And here's his quote back. Bless his heart. No. Yeah. What happened was we were sitting there looking at rushes, all of us. And I was humiliated by myself. They were all happy with it. The day after I said, guys, I've really screwed you. I've done the stupid old actors bullshit thing. Out of context, it was well-performed, but it was wrong. Three months after we stopped shooting, Redford phoned me and said, I think you were right. Can we do it again? I said, absolutely. Redford stood in for Mary because she wasn't there. I'm choosing to believe Donald Sutherland's depiction of the events because as we know, Robert Redford, unreliable narrator. Sean? I think it's safe to assume that Donald Sutherland is also quite self-regarding. So it's possible that this has just entered the vortex of masculine know-it-all bullshit, something I know a lot about. And no one will ever know the truth, honestly. This is why I will never have a Grandland oral history because I'll end up killing everybody. Yeah, including me and Mallory for no reason. Taking straight, sitting right next to you. You guys will be fine. Ordinary people on the list of most banned books in school libraries. Yeah, that's so strange. It was the 52nd most challenged book in schools and libraries from 1999, narrowly beating out number 53, American Psycho. It's kind of the 13 reasons why of its time, right? It's sort of like suicidal ideation and all the depression and all these things that they're trying to shield teenagers from as they're going through that difficult time of their life. 13 reasons why it was an irresponsible show. Okay. Let's take a break and then we'll do Apex Mountain. Apex Mountain, Redford. I actually think yes. I think this is it. He's still one of the four most bankable actors. He's at the peak of his handsome powers and he just directed an Oscar winner. He won Best Director and Best Actor and he fucking took down Scorsese. Yeah. I'm going to say yes. The Sundance Institute was formed in 1981, shortly after he won his first Oscar for Best Director. So this is like the peak of his power. Damn. Yeah. Timothy Hutton, I would probably say yes. Because especially, maybe you say Taps might be Taps. I mean, he won the Oscar. So I feel like that closes the deal. Mary Tyler Moore, no way. No. Mary, Sean, do you ever do the thing like people from the way past that preceded you? But you're like, damn, that lady was attractive. Like going way back. You mean like just like- From like the 40s, 50s, 60s. Like Cleopatra? Like what are we talking about here? Yeah, we can go back to Cleopatra. Like Rita Hayworth. Yeah. Cleopatra was a dime. Helen of Troy. Yeah. Mary Tyler Moore and the Dick Van Dyke show lights out. Oh, gorgeous. Laura Petrie. Lights out. Laura Petrie lights out. Yeah. No, of course. I would still say the one seed for TV sitcom. I enjoy that question. Were people hot in the 50s and 60s? Yes, they absolutely were. Sometimes, you know, the hairdos get a little weird in some decades. Oh, God. Yeah. I'm not. Brunette's not really my thing, if I'm being honest. No shot to brunettes. Mal, I'm sorry. We know you love a redhead, Sean. I love a redhead. But yeah, I mean, Mary Tyler Moore was so cute. And so, like, charming and smart. And she just kind of was like the ultimate gravitational pull. Great smile. Yeah. Who didn't love Mary Tyler Moore? Married to Grant Tinker, who funded The White Shadow, my favorite show of all time. The Oscars. Apex Mountain. 1981. Ooh. Johnny Carson. Hmm. A slew of stars. Redford wins for Best Director. We have one of the most controversial Oscars we've ever had. I would personally say 1994, I think, is Apex Mountain. Because that was Pulp Fiction, Forrest Gump, Shawshank, and Letterman with the Uma Oprah. I think that was the most memorable Oscars we've ever had. But from, like, an audience kind of impact standpoint, you might argue 1980. It's hard to get away from 75 with Godfather, Chinatown, conversation. I'm talking about the telecast. I'm not talking about, like, what were the best movies that won. Yeah. I mean, like, as an actual telecast. Okay. Was the Oscars ever more potent bigger? I'm just going to read you the hosts, the four hosts of the Academy Awards in 1975. You ready for this? Yeah. Bob Hope, of course, hosted many times, staple of the Oscars. Shirley MacLaine. Sammy Davis Jr. And Chris Ryan. And Frank Sinatra were the hosts of the Academy Awards. That's pretty good. Now, so, you know, and this was true all throughout the 70s and 80s. There were Oscars that were hosted by, like, Goldie Hawn and Chevy Chase together. You know, like, the game used to be different, man. It used to be a big deal. This is a good one, though. 81 was a really good one. Now Sean's beloved Oscars is dying a slow death, much like Beth and Calvin's marriage. Donald Sutherland. You could talk me into this for Apex Mountain for him. I think it's the best movie he's ever been in. He's a pretty recognizable dude from Animal House and Invasion of the Body Snatchers and those kind of things. He definitely fills some sort of spot in the leading man rankings. I don't know. I just... It's so hard. He's giving birth to Jack Bauer. Jack Bauer's now his son. I was going to say, isn't his Apex Mountain when everyone is Googling Kiefer Sutherland at the beginning of 24 and realizes that Donald is his father? Does the Oscar slide help or hurt the case? Because on the one hand, you could say there's, like, a diminishment there. But on the other hand, it, like, kind of really keeps him active at this moment in time in the public debate, which might be a boon, actually, to the case. Just for personal reasons, his performance is X in JFK. He's sitting on top of the mountain there. That's just my favorite. I agree. I love him in Invasion of the Body Snatchers. That's a good one. Craig and Dylan had no idea what that just was. Judd Hirsch, fucking A, yes. He's on Taxi. He's in Ordinary People. Like, goddamn, he's just standing there having a Gatorade on Apex Mountain. I love that a guy who looks, talks, and acts like Judd Hirsch could be the most important guy in Hollywood for about 12 months. It's crazy. Elizabeth McGovern, no. No. But she did win our hearts. How about the name Buck? This is Apex Mountain for the name Buck. Because we also have Buck Henry. Yeah. That's all I got. Buck Showalter got the Orioles back to postseason glory. Mets manager Buck Showalter in 2023 when the Mets are world champions. Also, rookie Magic Johnson, the Lakers, his nickname is Young Buck. Oh, Craig says Uncle Buck. That's interesting. How about Bucky Barnes? Bucky Barnes, Buck from the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Ever heard of it? You know? Yankee fans would say Bucky Dent, 1978. They can fuck off. Is it Apex Mountain for the name Ward? Or is that, that's got to be Leave it to Beaver, right? Ward Cleaver? I was going to say Ward Cleaver, yeah. Ward Cleaver. How about Buck and Ward in the same movie? I'm going to say Apex Mountain. Intense Chicago movies. I do feel like this is becoming Apex Mountain. We're not there yet, but we have Bad Boys and Risky Business coming. We just had Thief. We had Ordinary People. We're in like a four-year intense Chicago movie. Okay. Apex. Fucked up family movies. Was this Apex Mountain? No. No. Pains me to say, but no. All right. We're not going to spoil that one. Picky Nits. This is dark, but it is a gimmick in movies like this. The families that keep the dead child's room completely intact so we can have the scene where we go in there. I think we're good with that gimmick. I just think we're good. I think we should retire. I think it's effective. It worked. Kudos to the gimmick, but we're good. What about in real life? You think families that have kept their dead child's room? I have no comment on real life stuff. Okay. No, no. I'm just saying as a movie gimmick of 28-minute mark, somebody sitting on the bed, we're good. We don't need to see that again. I'm with you. This is from my wife. So the brother was an amazing swimmer with tons of trophies and he was the one that drowned? What about the swimming? Wow. That's part of the tragedy of it, though. My wife was really upset about this. I'm like, we don't know how long they were out there. We got in an argument. This is the only time we argued during the whole movie. I think that's like- They might have been out there for hours. No, she's right. Cancel ordinary people. This shit is bunk. That's like Conrad's line about how Bunk never took anything seriously, right? He just didn't think that anything bad could happen. Yeah. And then it did. Your wife's a smart lady, man. I don't know. I wouldn't argue with her on this. I think she's onto something. This is my big one. So Beth wakes up middle of the night, rolls over. Conrad's not there. Goes downstairs. Big speech that they have to refilm. Leaves. Goes. Quietly puts up a suitcase. I have two pickiness. One is the kind of weird seizure thing she does. I actually think is kind of bad acting. We could have potentially put that in the Vincent Hano Award. Packs the suitcase. Cab comes. Yeah. There's no internet. 1980. Where the fuck was she going? What if she just show up at the airport with suitcases and was like a one-way ticket to Houston? Yeah. Maybe went right to a travel agent. You know? It was four in the morning. What if she went over to- Well, the sun is up when she departs, right? She could have gone over to Ward's house. That's where she was going. She was going to Ward's in Houston. Down to Houston. So she's packing the suitcase. She's just taking me to the airport. I'm just going to buy a ticket at the airport. Yeah. Yeah. Mal, have you ever had a moment like that? Where you were just like, fuck it. I got to just get in the car and drive. No.
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